Chinese All-in Collusion

[huge_yakman]

OK, this topic was started in an unrelated post, and I want to continue and give it the full attention it deserves:

Tony had said that there was a team of 10 or so that constantly went all-in to receive bonuses faster. From my research, all I can find is a team that used PokerStars's old "All-in Protection" to their advantage specifically in 7-stud hi. For those who don't remember, at ring games, if one's connection was disturbed during a hand, then the hand would play out with the disconnected player being treated as all-in. Cheaters could use it to their advantage to chase draws cheaply. Have a gut shot, but don't want to pay? Just disconnect and be treated to the main pot should the draw hit. I'm sure there are other ways to use this to create an edge, but this is the most obvious -- I remember actually noticing it back in 2005 when I used to play 3/6 LHE.

Tony, if this is not the case you were thinking of, I'd really like to see if you could dig up the post that you had read.

[Tony]

I'll have a search, I'm pretty sure it was hold'em.

[Tony]

Ok I haven't found the post yet, but on a related note I came across this one, about HU collusion during the milestone hand bonuses.  It was for this reason that all HU cash games were suspended (eventually) for the duration of the promotion.

I'll keep looking for the other one.

[Tony]

Kurt,

I can only find this link which is I think the one you mentioned above.  It does concern Chinese teams from 07-08 which sounds about right, but it WAS in 7C Stud games, not hold'em.  Either I remembered it wrongly or I just haven't managed to find that thread yet.

[huge_yakman]

Ok I haven't found the post yet, but on a related note I came across this one, about HU collusion during the milestone hand bonuses.  It was for this reason that all HU cash games were suspended (eventually) for the duration of the promotion.

I'll keep looking for the other one.

That is a fascinating thread. Personally, I think PokerStars could have done something to avoid this...especially since it appears to have happened in past promotions.

[MellowYellow]

Well if I was at home I would already have this info since I worked it out, but let me see here:

if you were Supernova 1 VPP = 3.5 FPPs  so they are getting 7 FPPs/hand/person
so 70FPPs total.

The best bonus is $4,000 for 250,000 FPPs which works out to  $0.016 per FPP

So even then with all of them being SN they still would have been losing money on the $3 rake each hand.  I was at first thinking this would work because I calculated out how you actually make more money on bonuses than you pay in Rake on SN.  BUT I forgot that that was if you play tight and the vast majority of the rake is caused by other people playing the pots, and you were SNE.  So for this where it is always you (or one of your teamates) paying the $3 in rake every hand, they would be losing their asses.  Must have just been a bonus clearing deal otherwise they were getting killed by the rake.