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Author Topic: Badugi  (Read 257 times)
jabit
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« on: January 23, 2009, 08:53:43 pm »

Inspired by Verstehen's december (or was it january) goals, and needing a change of pace from NLHE, which has been brutal lately, I've decided to give Badugi a shot. This is a longwinded post, but please have a look at it, and play some hands of Badugi so what I write makes sense. I know most people here like to change game for a couple of sessions when things are in a bit of a rut. This game is much simpler than heading to a stud or omaha table, and should have a higher +ev if played well, so you can rleax a bit and not think so hard.

It seems a complicated game, but unless I am missing something, it is a really simple game, requiring relatively simple strategy. I've played maybe 1000 hands, for approx -20BB at 0.25/0.50 FL. http://badugipro.com/strategy.html gives a basic strategy guide, but IMO, it is massively flawed, and will send you broke. I include it here though, because it gives some idea of hand values at each betting round, and is a useful first read. I think that if all players at the table had very solid strategy, it would be pretty difficult to beat the rake. Thankfully though, there are some pretty ordinary players out there.

I say that strategy link is flawed, because it takes no account of position. I don't think that I have played a game where position is so important. Obviously, because you can't see any of your opponents cards, and there are no community cards, positions is the ONLY way to get ANY information out of your opponents. Even compared to five card draw, i believe position is more important, because in that game, the number of cards being drawn can have several interpretations (ie, opp draws one card. does he have a set? 2 pair? drawing to a straight/ flush?) In Badugi, a 1 card draw means opp is 1 card from a badugi (4 cards, with no counterfieted suits or values).  

So despite the strategy guide listed, a 2 card draw from EP, is a pretty ordinary hand, and a strong 1 card draw from LP is quite a strong starting hand.

The quality of the opposition is fairly weak at this level, and although I have never really played any limit games, the swings seem pretty big. I will often sit at a table and within an hour be +20BB, then down 20BB, etc. Almost every hand is shown down, very often with 3 players. I can see many big mistakes being made, for instance one player standing pat, and another drawing 2 cards. Then standing pat player bets, other player calls, then draws another 2 cards. Like all low stakes poker, players will tend to overvalue their draws, especially so because this is a drawing game, and players tend to thnk that means it is correct to be drawing all the way every time.

To give an example, a scenario that often happens is that on second last draw EP stands pat and LP draws 1 card. on the next round of betting, EP bets out, and LP will call, even though the last card didn't help and he needs to draw again (on the final draw). LP may believe that he is getting the pot odds required. But lets look at it closer. A strong hand in Badugi is a 7 high badugi or lower. Jack high or higher i pretty weak. So lets say on average, EP is holding a 9 high badugi. We are in LP, and hold Ah 2c 3s and Ts. Obviously we are going to discard the Ts, and we are drawing to a diamond. however, this diamond must be a 9 or better. it must also not counterfiet in value with another of our cards. Therefore, our outs are 4d 5d 6d 7d 8d 9d. 6 outs. But we know our opponent holds one diamond, and it is likely lower than a nine. So we have to discount at least half an out. now, depending on how many cards we have drawn, there are about 44 unknown cards in the deck. 5.5:44 or approx 1:8. So to make the 0.50 call, we need at least $4 in the pot, which is not common because until someone holds a badugi, they are generally not raising or reraising. Plays like this happen very, very often and mean there is money there to be made. It is just a matter of working out how to get it.

One other thing that I have noticed is that bets always mean exactly what they look like they mean. Players who are betting and standing pat every round hold a strong badugi. standing pat and check calling is a weak badugi. betting and drawing means a draw to a stong badugi. I never saw any bluffing from any opps. On the other hand, against a player who is capable of folding, I have found that if I hold a good 3 card hand, I will sometimes bet out on the second last betting round, then stand pat. If he draws I will then bet out on the final betting round. In the example above I showed that it is approx 8:1 against me hitting the card I need for a strong badugi, but I have gained a lot of fold equity by showing strength by standing pat. I am yet to see anyone else play like this, but so far it is making me money.

So please, as I said, give it a chance for a couple of hundred hands, and tell me what you think of what I have written here. Once I am convinced I am not doing anything embarrassing, I might even make a video.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2009, 08:56:48 pm by jabit » Logged

Deadmoney
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 06:13:50 am »

Very Nice Jab,

I have played it at Doyles a little please make a video

Regards David
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009, 08:46:43 am »

Badugi is a great game in my opinion, butI think it should only be played at limit level.....stars do a PL and I think maybe a NL....or maybe the NL is 2-7....either way PL badugi is highly dangerous
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