Medium flush with two aces on the board - call or raise?

[verstehen]

What do you say to this one, friends?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Button ($9.95)
SB ($6.80)
BB ($9.20)
UTG ($9.85)
Hero ($10)
CO ($7.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , .   
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, 2 folds, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold.

A little outside my usual hijack raising range, but let's try it.

Flop: ($0.80) , , (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.5, SB calls $0.50.

Not bad, four to a flush and an inside straight draw.  But he check-calls me,

Turn: ($1.80) (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

I'm going to take the free card here since I have a weak hand.

River: ($1.80) (2 players)
SB bets $1.8, Hero calls $1.80.

Success, I made my flush, but with two aces on the board.  Now he leads out for a pot sized bet...?

My concern here was A-rag hitting the full house, so I took the safe route and called.

SHOWDOWN:

Villian showed ,

Hero showed ,

Final Pot: $5.40

[Mtn4Mike]

Personally, I'm going to raise.  If he flopped a set he "shouldn't" risk giving you a free card on the turn with that board.  And would he call a pre-flop raise in poor position with ace rag...probably not.  My only real fear is or and that's a bit too much MUTB.

Mike

[verstehen]

I was thinking more like AT or even A6. 

Clearly he was looking for a check-raise on the turn and missed it. 

I wish I'd raised, he surely would have called and it's less likely he has a flush than just A + high card.  He thinks I'm c-betting pure air so he's ready to come after me...

[ashmc2]

I think you played the river correctly. Never raise a paired board if a boat can beat you. That way leads to the darkside.

[Deadmoney]

I think you played the river correctly. Never raise a paired board if a boat can beat you. That way leads to the darkside.

I think u played it fine.but not because of "Never raise a paired board if a boat can beat you" but just because of how the action went

[robsmith82]

I think you played the river correctly. Never raise a paired board if a boat can beat you. That way leads to the darkside.

Any poker advice or statement that begins with "never" should be taken with a very large pinch of salt.  Ash, there are tons of places where you can value raise a paired board with a flush or a straight, or even trips.  Not to do so is giving up quite a bit.

I cant see the cards for some reason so cant comment on the hand without them!

[Zerbet]

And would he call a pre-flop raise in poor position with ace rag...probably not.

That may certainly be true for you and I, but in a $10NL game on Full Tilt, not so much.

On some days I will call as played, on others I might shove, depending on the texture and play of the table, how I've been running/my image, etc.  I don't see a huge issue with playing it either way... but in the NEXT hand with this guy...

Of course, they always say that if you would have played it differently with the cards turned face up, you probably made a mistake, so there is that... I've certainly seen AK and AT played exactly this way many times in the $10NL games, too... *shrugs*

[verstehen]

Anyone else having trouble seeing the cards?  I'm using the FlopTurnRiver "cards" format that uses links to image files outside this site, maybe that's the problem.  I like how it looks but if it's giving others trouble I'll cut it out. 

Anyway, Rob, my hand was:

9 8 

And the final board was

K T 6 A A

He check-called the flop, checked the turn, and led for the pot on the river. 

[robsmith82]

I can see it now Im home verstehen.  It probably links to a site that my work bans so I couldnt see it there.  Your best bet is leggopoker IMO, its what I always use.

[ashmc2]

I can't see your original cards either. I am also at work. But I hope you take Robs advice because I check the forum mostly at work. Plus, you seem to post a lot of HH around here and I would love to be able to understand what is being discussed.

OK, maybe "never" was wrong, but I can't think of too many situations were check/calling isn't more prudent. Examples boys?

[Deadmoney]

I can't see your original cards either. I am also at work. But I hope you take Robs advice because I check the forum mostly at work. Plus, you seem to post a lot of HH around here and I would love to be able to understand what is being discussed.

OK, maybe "never" was wrong, but I can't think of too many situations were check/calling isn't more prudent. Examples boys?

You have , UTG raises , loose player calls you call OTB 


Flop is

UTG checks, loose player checks, you bet, UTG folds, loose player calls


Turn is

Loose player checks , you check

River is

Loose player bets out 1/2 pot........... he would get a raise from me here...

[ashmc2]

Loose ass over there could have called you the whole way with 2pr or with anything. I probably check that here. He could also have the higher flush. You are nowhere near the nuts here so why risk it. If he calls, you are likely sunk. Now give me Axhh and I might rock-n-roll, but for me most likely not. Maybe I am weak and seeing monsters under the bed. In your example you are beat by Axhh, Kxhh, KK, QQ, 22, 66, K6, Q6, 62, giving you 10th nuts. Hmm, check IMHO...and try to drag in his last bet and be happy. Likely he would have reraised with a few of those starting hands. Do you often raise someone for "value" who checks every street and then leads out on the river for 1/2 pot with the 10th nuts? That is exactly how good loose players make their money. They give action to get action. And when you are raising over the top of river bet with 10th nuts you are playing into his hands. Anyone think this is a raise hand? What if he pushes? I'm pretty sure you would be priced in at point if your raise wasn't a push. Why not carefully drag this nice pot and get into it heavy with his loose punk later on when you have...hmm...lets be liberal here and say maybe 5th nuts or better. 

[Deadmoney]

Loose ass over there could have called you the whole way with 2pr or with anything. I probably check that here. He could also have the higher flush. You are nowhere near the nuts here so why risk it. If he calls, you are likely sunk. Now give me Axhh and I might rock-n-roll, but for me most likely not. Maybe I am weak and seeing monsters under the bed. In your example you are beat by Axhh, Kxhh, KK, QQ, 22, 66, K6, Q6, 62, giving you 10th nuts. Hmm, check IMHO...and try to drag in his last bet and be happy. Likely he would have reraised with a few of those starting hands. Do you often raise someone for "value" who checks every street and then leads out on the river for 1/2 pot with the 10th nuts? That is exactly how good loose players make their money. They give action to get action. And when you are raising over the top of river bet with 10th nuts you are playing into his hands. Anyone think this is a raise hand? What if he pushes? I'm pretty sure you would be priced in at point if your raise wasn't a push. Why not carefully drag this nice pot and get into it heavy with his loose punk later on when you have...hmm...lets be liberal here and say maybe 5th nuts or better. 

You are also ahead to:



































Jeez, I am losing track as well as Any K2 , Any single 6 ...... Ash my point was (though this might not be the perfect example ) what in essence I am saying is that when the board pairs, and you make a non-nut flush, I dont think its an "auto" check call...alot of players will make a 1/2 pot/block bet with their trips /2pr just to get to showdown


Regards David

[ashmc2]

Maybe I’m weak and conservative at times but it works for me. I almost “always” check/call on a river-paired board with anything other than a boat or quads. I’m am at times losing a nice bet for value, but I’m not losing a huge pot. Small-ball makes me money and I’m happy with that.